Published: March 21, 2022 | Date of Source Audio: March 19, 2022

Transcribed and modified for publication from the original audio program

Dr. Sebastian Gorka talks with Dennis Prager about the moral morass of Russian history

Dr. Sebastian Gorka: Can you give a little bit of insight into why Russia is different? It's a liminal position on the Eurasian continent, and this concept of whether it's Peter the Great, whether it's the czars or the secretaries general – why the “great man” or the “strong man” concept still has such sway amongst the Russian people?

Dennis Prager: So, you've really asked the 64,000-ruble question. I have been torn on this issue much of my life. Was communism imposed on the Russian people, or did it well up from the Russian people? This is a debate that people who study Russia and the Soviet Union have had for decades.

In other words, is there a Russian proclivity to tyranny or was tyranny imposed on them? I mean, it's not critical but it is not insignificant as well that Stalin was not Russian. Stalin was Georgian. So, it's an interesting fact. I don't know if it's dispositive. I was of the belief – despite the fact that their whole past was czars, which is tyranny – nevertheless, there were real movements toward what we used to call liberalism in Russia under the czars. And there was Dostoevsky, of course, and there was Pushkin, there was Tchaikovsky and so on. So, you start to think, gee, had there not been the imposition of communism, then the Russians might have developed in a much more open-society way. I was of that belief through much of my life. However, I have changed because of the popularity of Putin and even more telling, from every poll, most Russians look at Stalin positively.

“Is there a Russian proclivity to tyranny or was tyranny imposed on them?”

Gorka: Incredible.

Prager: “Incredible” is the perfect description, Sebastian, because he murdered 20 to 40 million of their fellow citizens.

Gorka: Including at least 6 million Ukrainians –

Prager: Yes, I talk about the Holodomor all the time. People don't know about it!

Gorka: Look, I never thought that what my parents experienced – tanks on the streets of a nation's capital, in the case of my parents, it was Budapest. I thought that was ancient history. That was what our parents, our grandparents had to suffer through. It's happening right now as we speak in Europe. I am shocked by the lack of moral clarity on the conservative side. I'm a little bit surprised by how suddenly liberals hate Russia, which wasn't the case from Duranty on down for about 70 years. But when we have people who say they're conservatives, Dennis, who say, well, you know what? This was provoked by the West, bioweapons labs, Nazi genocide, Putin is encircled by NATO, and by the way, he's a champion of the West and Christendom. How did that happen in less than 30 years since the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact – that we've completely lost moral clarity?

Prager: Look, you're speaking to a kindred spirit and my lament about the loss of moral clarity has been my life's work. I frankly don't have an answer. The man has led the invasion, decimation of a country – of an independent country – that in no way, shape or form threatened it. It is as blatant an example of international aggression as one can have. He doesn't believe that Ukraine has a right to exist. It never existed, in his view. It was always part of Russia. And there are conservatives who agree with him or find that sympathetic.

That is why you have to ask in life, what is your standard of judgment? What is your yardstick? My yardstick is moral. That is the first question I always ask: Is it right or is it wrong? So, for example, I believe totally in America First, but I don't believe in America Only. America Only is not conservative. America First is conservative, but not America Only. God or nature or luck or our ingenuity, whatever you wish to ascribe it to, has made us the strongest nation on earth. People look to us when they are invaded by bad guys. Isn't that a good thing that they look to us? Why would we want to shirk that responsibility and say only if New York or San Francisco is attacked, should it concern us?