The only twisting going around is your apparent inability to understand the principles behind moral capitalism and those of communism... What part of "There is NO... none, nada, profit of any kind in a Communist economy... The public owns nothing and the government owns the means of production. Reasonable profits don't exist in a Communist economic system. There is no private capital or investment.
There are hybrids or modified versions of communism that permit some private ownership of small businesses and farms, under government license and regulation... However, the buildings, land, machinery, and tools needed for production remain the property of the state ... The business operators lease them.... similar to the system China currently uses to regulate foreign manufacturers operating in China.
The moral aptitude of the public and the market define reasonable profits... Anti-Trust and price-gouging laws of the Federal Government and several states regulate the taking of such profit. The government often defines such profits as percentages of market value. However, like the border and immigration laws, gouging and anti-trust laws are being IGNORED and have been for several decades. Our parents and grandparents lived under their administration without any serious harm to the markets. The recent failure of the Government to enforce such laws has resulted in a debilitating concentration of wealth in the hands of fewer and fewer individuals... followed by an increasing number of middle-class and poor seeking government aid.... welfare.
Food stamps, housing, medical insurance, utility assistance... and the need for increased unemployment insurance benefits are all indicators of CORPORATE WELFARE... Yes, Corporate Welfare... as without government assistance, many working individuals and families are unable to sustain the essentials of life on their private wages alone. Many of the lower-income wage earners would not be able to commute to work or afford child care and God forbid they should become ill. Without government SUBSIDIZED WAGES many low-income workers can not afford to work for private corporations.
Maximized profits take advantage of low-wage employees... by leveraging the low wages with federal assistance, keeping wages low and profits high... Corporations leverage low wages with federal welfare payments, rather than distributing some of the profits they make to increase employee wages. Without federal and or state assistance they would not have taxpayer subsidies.... turnover rates would be extremely high, as their low-wage workers burn out or find better-paying jobs... WHERE POSSIBLE. God sees this kind of capitalism as muzzling the Ox and using a corrupt scale and measure to take profits where others labor. Reaping a greater portion than they have sown.
God is not fooled... using one's position, privilege, and power to take profits simply because their position permits them to do so, where real value is not added, is an indicator of GREED and Avarice... Scrouge and Marley's chains, in the novel 'A Christmas Carroll', by Charles Dickens, best portrays the problem... Surly, the weight of the chains amassed by the errant capitalist of today is great. Caveat Emptor... buyer beware... should not be necessary where moral capitalism is practiced.
There are no profits in a communist system... no (ROI) rates of return on investment, as there is no private property or businesses to earn a profit. Reasonable rates of return on investments are not communist doctrine. Wake up.
The Deep State... the hidden government (the captains of industry and finance) controls US markets ... We do not have a FREE MARKET economy. The deep state and our government are in a fascist relationship... Every major market in America is controlled, regulated, and manipulated... rigged to favor mega corporations.... globalists. We are a Feudal State with controlled markets. We no longer have Godly Commerce or Government in America.
Rates of Return on investment for the mega-corps are nearly guaranteed... over the long run. Major Banks and investment brokers are protected institutions... subject to government bailouts... while the private citizen loses his home when bankrupt... the FED bails out the mega-capitalist institutions. They can't lose in such a market and economy.
Governments have never stayed out of the market places ... it is an illusion sold to the dupes. We either have moral capitalism... regulated by governments that embrace God's natural laws including how our culture manages wealth or we have an ungodly and immoral government regulating commerce and every facet of our lives.
For example, our founding fathers used tariffs, imposts, and trade agreements negotiated by the government... to regulate business domestically and internationally... Government has a role to play in all economic systems and every form of government operating in the world regulates its commerce to one degree or another,
The USA has a highly regulated capitalist system of commerce... The citadels of industry and finance, our stock markets, and local businesses are all subject to a host of Antitrust laws, anti-gouging laws, construction codes, environmental laws, consumer and labor safety regulations, and on, and on. Capitalism has a wide range of applications: free market, feudal, or fascist economic paradigms. Capitalism like most mortal undertakings is not a rigid system... It is the product of those administering their particular BRAND of capitalism and government. Society can choose either to implement God's standards for Capital and Commerce or impose the world's standards for commerce and society.
Godly commerce ... is best described as moral capitalism... Money has a purpose and for the true Christian, it is important to understand what our relationship is with God and mankind when using our money. First, we are the stewards of God's wealth... it is not our own. Once we understand that wealth is a blessing from God to be used for Godly or moral purposes. Materialism, hoarding, and the use of wealth as a tool to secure one's power are not part of Godly capitalism.
God is a capitalist... God believes in the natural right to private property while avoiding the negative social effects of unrestrained and immoral materialism and greed. God views moral commerce and capitalism as the product of a just and equal measure. Godly commerce satisfies all parties involved, there are no losers or abused parties. Capital is rewarded with a just return on investment, labor receives a fair wage, and the consumer is provided the services or goods promised. Devious and or leveraged privilege and position, are not part of the equation in Godly Capitalism.
Bannon: We are not here to unify we are here to defeat the globalists, defeat the Oligarchs
Command Center is a social network
Paul Simmon > Ronald A. Nelson COL, USA, RetiredMarch 6, 2023 at 1:17pm
The only way to end this discussion is to agree with you. You are a capitalist who believes that governments, not markets, should decide what are "reasonable profits", how much income working individuals should get, and how far private enterrprise should lift low wage employees.
Like you, I am also a capitalist and I am the kind of capitalist who believes that markets decide these things and that governments should stay out of allocating resources according to what the government believes is "reasonable".
See how we can solve this. We are both "capitalists" :-) That was easy, wasn't it?
Paul Simmon > Ronald A. Nelson COL, USA, RetiredMarch 5, 2023 at 5:34am
No matter how you twist it, "reasonable rates of return (ROI) and wages for commerce" are indeed Marxist. The markets are not determining economic success but some governmental oversight body determines what is "reasonable". You can call this body Marxist or godly or whatever. It's definitely not capitalist, it's government dictatorship, just like Marxists like it. - You know, now I'd want to get in your head to figure out how you can be ok with government dictatorship telling us what "reasonable" is and still call yourself an American, a patriot, a capitalist, a tea party kind of guy. That's some major mental twisting. Quite remarkable.
Actually, pastors do have a very important role in establishing standards of conduct for government, personal, and commercial engagement by Christians... ONE OF THE MAJOR PROBLEMS TODAY is that pastors and the ministry, in general, have FAILED to hold the Body of Christ accountable to the Word of God. If the ministry were functioning properly we would not have public schools and institutions promoting Satanic doctrines or indoctrinating our future leaders with worldly ethics and standards.
Expecting reasonable rates of return (ROI) and wages for commerce are not Marxist ... They are fundamentals in establishing an equal and just measure... they promote just compensation for both capital and labor. Reasonable rates of return are established by MORAL MARKETS. Moral markets are created by individuals who understand that taking more than they earn as a wage or profit is dishonest and constitutes a form of theft... One party or the other must pay for the excess in profit or wages. Every economic exchange is like a mathematical formula ... it must balance. The only fair way to establish that is to inculcate Godly (moral) practices for commerce in our culture... We do that by practicing and demanding the use of a 'just-scale and equal measure' (God's standards) for all private and commercial transactions.
I have stood toe to toe with communists and have seen their government function at the cell and collective levels... equity in their eyes is an equal outcome for everyone... Their sense of 'equity' is not based on 'personal performance' or achieving better standards of production... their view on equity is based on a warp utopian concept that states: "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need"... there are 'no profits' or personal capital. No one owns anything. Investments and businesses are all owned and operated by the State...Wages and retail prices are set by the state...safety and environmental standards for manufacturing, when they exist, are set by the state... I don't agree with any of their doctrines.
Since you can read I must conclude that your comments are the result of ignorance, obstinance, or a combination of both.
Paul Simmon > Ronald A. Nelson COL, USA, RetiredMarch 4, 2023 at 2:56pm
I can read just fine, and I can also tell what are marxist ideas and what aren't. You are anything but a capitalist no matter how often you insist on it. Kind of sad but so it goes. Here is the crucial thing and I don't think you'll understand it. You say, "....reasonable profit is that which is moral and sustainable. It reflects a reasonable return on real value added to the market." The free market obviously doesn't do a good job at determining the real value added to the market. We need some oversight body, pastors probably since they will apply godly morality according to your proposal. This oversight body will tell market participants what's reasonable and what isn't, what adds how much to the market, just like Marxists do. The market isn't doing this as it is supposed to do in a capitalist system. So, you take the market out and install some oversight body that allocates profits on what they think is "reasonable" just like Marx proposes. Yet, you want us to believe you are a capitalist. It won't work. People on this site are too smart to fall for that.
Replies
AMEN right on Col why don't you run for something!! you understand our constitution and Gods Word! That is what we need.
Our God will win but USA may suffer due to ignorance to the truth
It is being honest evil is never onest Col is correct!!!
The only twisting going around is your apparent inability to understand the principles behind moral capitalism and those of communism... What part of "There is NO... none, nada, profit of any kind in a Communist economy... The public owns nothing and the government owns the means of production. Reasonable profits don't exist in a Communist economic system. There is no private capital or investment.
There are hybrids or modified versions of communism that permit some private ownership of small businesses and farms, under government license and regulation... However, the buildings, land, machinery, and tools needed for production remain the property of the state ... The business operators lease them.... similar to the system China currently uses to regulate foreign manufacturers operating in China.
The moral aptitude of the public and the market define reasonable profits... Anti-Trust and price-gouging laws of the Federal Government and several states regulate the taking of such profit. The government often defines such profits as percentages of market value. However, like the border and immigration laws, gouging and anti-trust laws are being IGNORED and have been for several decades. Our parents and grandparents lived under their administration without any serious harm to the markets. The recent failure of the Government to enforce such laws has resulted in a debilitating concentration of wealth in the hands of fewer and fewer individuals... followed by an increasing number of middle-class and poor seeking government aid.... welfare.
Food stamps, housing, medical insurance, utility assistance... and the need for increased unemployment insurance benefits are all indicators of CORPORATE WELFARE... Yes, Corporate Welfare... as without government assistance, many working individuals and families are unable to sustain the essentials of life on their private wages alone. Many of the lower-income wage earners would not be able to commute to work or afford child care and God forbid they should become ill. Without government SUBSIDIZED WAGES many low-income workers can not afford to work for private corporations.
Maximized profits take advantage of low-wage employees... by leveraging the low wages with federal assistance, keeping wages low and profits high... Corporations leverage low wages with federal welfare payments, rather than distributing some of the profits they make to increase employee wages. Without federal and or state assistance they would not have taxpayer subsidies.... turnover rates would be extremely high, as their low-wage workers burn out or find better-paying jobs... WHERE POSSIBLE. God sees this kind of capitalism as muzzling the Ox and using a corrupt scale and measure to take profits where others labor. Reaping a greater portion than they have sown.
God is not fooled... using one's position, privilege, and power to take profits simply because their position permits them to do so, where real value is not added, is an indicator of GREED and Avarice... Scrouge and Marley's chains, in the novel 'A Christmas Carroll', by Charles Dickens, best portrays the problem... Surly, the weight of the chains amassed by the errant capitalist of today is great. Caveat Emptor... buyer beware... should not be necessary where moral capitalism is practiced.
There are no profits in a communist system... no (ROI) rates of return on investment, as there is no private property or businesses to earn a profit. Reasonable rates of return on investments are not communist doctrine. Wake up.
The Deep State... the hidden government (the captains of industry and finance) controls US markets ... We do not have a FREE MARKET economy. The deep state and our government are in a fascist relationship... Every major market in America is controlled, regulated, and manipulated... rigged to favor mega corporations.... globalists. We are a Feudal State with controlled markets. We no longer have Godly Commerce or Government in America.
Rates of Return on investment for the mega-corps are nearly guaranteed... over the long run. Major Banks and investment brokers are protected institutions... subject to government bailouts... while the private citizen loses his home when bankrupt... the FED bails out the mega-capitalist institutions. They can't lose in such a market and economy.
Governments have never stayed out of the market places ... it is an illusion sold to the dupes. We either have moral capitalism... regulated by governments that embrace God's natural laws including how our culture manages wealth or we have an ungodly and immoral government regulating commerce and every facet of our lives.
For example, our founding fathers used tariffs, imposts, and trade agreements negotiated by the government... to regulate business domestically and internationally... Government has a role to play in all economic systems and every form of government operating in the world regulates its commerce to one degree or another,
The USA has a highly regulated capitalist system of commerce... The citadels of industry and finance, our stock markets, and local businesses are all subject to a host of Antitrust laws, anti-gouging laws, construction codes, environmental laws, consumer and labor safety regulations, and on, and on. Capitalism has a wide range of applications: free market, feudal, or fascist economic paradigms. Capitalism like most mortal undertakings is not a rigid system... It is the product of those administering their particular BRAND of capitalism and government. Society can choose either to implement God's standards for Capital and Commerce or impose the world's standards for commerce and society.
Godly commerce ... is best described as moral capitalism... Money has a purpose and for the true Christian, it is important to understand what our relationship is with God and mankind when using our money. First, we are the stewards of God's wealth... it is not our own. Once we understand that wealth is a blessing from God to be used for Godly or moral purposes. Materialism, hoarding, and the use of wealth as a tool to secure one's power are not part of Godly capitalism.
God is a capitalist... God believes in the natural right to private property while avoiding the negative social effects of unrestrained and immoral materialism and greed. God views moral commerce and capitalism as the product of a just and equal measure. Godly commerce satisfies all parties involved, there are no losers or abused parties. Capital is rewarded with a just return on investment, labor receives a fair wage, and the consumer is provided the services or goods promised. Devious and or leveraged privilege and position, are not part of the equation in Godly Capitalism.
The only way to end this discussion is to agree with you. You are a capitalist who believes that governments, not markets, should decide what are "reasonable profits", how much income working individuals should get, and how far private enterrprise should lift low wage employees.
Like you, I am also a capitalist and I am the kind of capitalist who believes that markets decide these things and that governments should stay out of allocating resources according to what the government believes is "reasonable".
See how we can solve this. We are both "capitalists" :-) That was easy, wasn't it?
No matter how you twist it, "reasonable rates of return (ROI) and wages for commerce" are indeed Marxist. The markets are not determining economic success but some governmental oversight body determines what is "reasonable". You can call this body Marxist or godly or whatever. It's definitely not capitalist, it's government dictatorship, just like Marxists like it. - You know, now I'd want to get in your head to figure out how you can be ok with government dictatorship telling us what "reasonable" is and still call yourself an American, a patriot, a capitalist, a tea party kind of guy. That's some major mental twisting. Quite remarkable.
Actually, pastors do have a very important role in establishing standards of conduct for government, personal, and commercial engagement by Christians... ONE OF THE MAJOR PROBLEMS TODAY is that pastors and the ministry, in general, have FAILED to hold the Body of Christ accountable to the Word of God. If the ministry were functioning properly we would not have public schools and institutions promoting Satanic doctrines or indoctrinating our future leaders with worldly ethics and standards.
Expecting reasonable rates of return (ROI) and wages for commerce are not Marxist ... They are fundamentals in establishing an equal and just measure... they promote just compensation for both capital and labor. Reasonable rates of return are established by MORAL MARKETS. Moral markets are created by individuals who understand that taking more than they earn as a wage or profit is dishonest and constitutes a form of theft... One party or the other must pay for the excess in profit or wages. Every economic exchange is like a mathematical formula ... it must balance. The only fair way to establish that is to inculcate Godly (moral) practices for commerce in our culture... We do that by practicing and demanding the use of a 'just-scale and equal measure' (God's standards) for all private and commercial transactions.
I have stood toe to toe with communists and have seen their government function at the cell and collective levels... equity in their eyes is an equal outcome for everyone... Their sense of 'equity' is not based on 'personal performance' or achieving better standards of production... their view on equity is based on a warp utopian concept that states: "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need"... there are 'no profits' or personal capital. No one owns anything. Investments and businesses are all owned and operated by the State...Wages and retail prices are set by the state...safety and environmental standards for manufacturing, when they exist, are set by the state... I don't agree with any of their doctrines.
Since you can read I must conclude that your comments are the result of ignorance, obstinance, or a combination of both.
I can read just fine, and I can also tell what are marxist ideas and what aren't. You are anything but a capitalist no matter how often you insist on it. Kind of sad but so it goes. Here is the crucial thing and I don't think you'll understand it. You say, "....reasonable profit is that which is moral and sustainable. It reflects a reasonable return on real value added to the market." The free market obviously doesn't do a good job at determining the real value added to the market. We need some oversight body, pastors probably since they will apply godly morality according to your proposal. This oversight body will tell market participants what's reasonable and what isn't, what adds how much to the market, just like Marxists do. The market isn't doing this as it is supposed to do in a capitalist system. So, you take the market out and install some oversight body that allocates profits on what they think is "reasonable" just like Marx proposes. Yet, you want us to believe you are a capitalist. It won't work. People on this site are too smart to fall for that.
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