Pastor in the UK Arrested...

According the the UK Telegraph, a paster was out preaching on the street and was arrested for saying that the Bible teaches homosexuality is a sin, loud enough for people to hear. There are so many things that will rub you the wrong way with this story, but the fact that we are becoming more like the UK should literally put the fear of God in you. When you read the article, it's not talking about some nut case that was obviously angry and purposely trying to get under people's skin for the sake of it.

To put this into context, the original offense was this. "During the exchange, he says he quietly listed homosexuality among a number of sins referred to in 1 Corinthians, including blasphemy, fornication, adultery and drunkenness." "Police officers are alleging that he made the remark in a voice loud enough to be overheard by others and have charged him with using abusive or insulting language, contrary to the Public Order Act." Later when speaking with an officer before the arrest, "He claims that the PCSO (the person who arrested him) then said he was homosexual and identified himself as the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender liaison officer for Cumbria police. Mr McAlpine replied: “It’s still a sin.”

Regardless of your beliefs on the subject, our constitution in the first amendment sets up a foundation that gives us more freedom than most men have had the privilege of having in human history. It was so obvious to those looking in from the outside, that just a few hundred years after it's writing, the face of Europe was radically changed. No longer were state religions instituted or governed by one church body, but the very foundation has seemingly changed over night. The UK, thought to be our brother in freedom, now seems to be leading the way the opposite direction.

The reason this is so important is not just about our economy, or losing the ability to choose our health care provider. It's not even because of the tragedy is losing the capitalist ecconomy that has developed more world changing technologies in two hundred years, than all the nations before it. It is because we are about to lose something, that once lost, is nearly impossible to get back. The freedom of religion, all by itself, was worth fighting, living and dieing for by those that founded this country. We have not had to learn the lesson they did, growing up in religious oppression, but if we do not stop and think long and hard about the consequences, we will.

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  • Good questions which I am happy to answer. Before I do though, so you know where I am coming from, I will give you my perspective on a few of the things you were saying.

    I believe in a literal six day creation. The "big bang" is something that I believe both science and theology contradict.

    As for before the creation, there was an eternal God that is holy, unique, not like us. We exist in Him, not He in us. Colossians 1:17 I do agree with your conclusion that something can't come from nothing.

    I don't believe in everyone having a different reality. I do believe in different perspectives, but reality doesn't depend upon what we think of it. People do have different perspectives, which can and do change as people learn.

    Making sense to you doesn't make something true. I would like to see evidence for your God being your conscience and in you.

    As for God being "wherever it makes sense", the problem with this idea is our nature. “ The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked; Who can know it?" Jer. 17:9 When something makes sense to you, and it is not based on solid evidence, "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Hebrews 11:1 your believing it is worthless. It may make you feel a certain way, or a light bulb may go off, but that doesn't make it the truth.

    I will deny anyone has a spiritual connection unless it is with the true and living God.

    It depends on who their god was. When the God of the Bible ordered Israel to kill the Canaanites there was a reason. The Canaanites were given four hundred years to repent of adultery, incest, child rape, bestiality and sacrificing their children to a false god. You see beliefs always produce action. Fruit.

    I would say that if it was the true God that ordered it, it would be just. I would know that He had been long suffering with them for much longer than they deserved and He had finally chosen to judge them.

    I'm assuming you mean Muslims here. "How do you distinguish between those who want to kill infidels and those who don't?" All I have to say is we haven't had any successful terrorist attacks since 9/11.

    As for God loving mankind, it is true. Though, at the same time, if He is a God that is just, He must also hate mankind. If a father has two sons, and one of the sons murders his brother, does the father hate the living son. Yes he does. But he also loves that son. We can understand this in many areas. Very simple.

    It would be more accurate to say that yes God does love you, and that's why your sin makes Him so angry. He's long suffering and gracious toward you your entire life, and you consistently love the things He gives you more than Him. Being blessed isn't a sign of God's pleasure with you, but His goodness toward you that should cause you to repent. Romans 2:4

    I don't want this to turn into a religious debate. If you want to talk more, we can continue in private messages. I am more than willing to spend the time to discuss the issue further, but this isn't the place for it.
  • We exist in a state of conscious, and conscious of as much as we allow. I presume that before the "Big Bang" universal consciousness existed, as from nothing you get nothing. The universe could not be here because it is here. It doesn't make any sense.

    You may think God is not in you, or think God is in Heaven, or in you and in Heaven.; or you may think God is in you and not in Heaven spelled with a capital H. That's your reality. I think God-consciousness is in me and I'm connected with the universe in other than the time-space consortium. In my case, it worked out well because it made sense to me. One can think God is wherever it makes sense and be helped, as long as one don't deny others their idea of their spiritual connection.

    Having said this, what would you say about someone who God ordered to kill all who don't believe the way they do? How do you distinguish between those who want to kill infidels and those who don't? Millions of Muslims want to kill infidels. They are all praying in the same places, hearing the same words from the same clerics. I've not heard of any other religion that calls for killing non-believers. Should anyone in America have the privilege of preaching death to infidels? I don't think we are making any sense about God. I believe God loves us all, because I'm looking within, not externally. Listen to others and God can be anything.
  • Mr. Smith, could you expound upon what you mean by "God exists in each of us"? Not a lot of context, so I would like to understand your meaning being the author. Thanks.
  • Christianity confused me. Simply because Christianity confused me, should there be a law to do away with Christianity? It's this kind of thinking that starts wars. Why is what I believe good for everyone, and those who disagree with me evil? Why should I control how everyone thinks? There can only be one God and that God exists in each of us. One of these days we're all going to know that. In the meanwhile, what should we do about those authorities who prey on the gullible? The law does not allow people to yell fire in a crowded building.
  • It's looks like the Christian Institute is the group taking on the case. There is more information in the link below from Albert Mohler's website.

    "He is being defended in court by the Christian Institute, a group that monitors such cases and offers legal counsel." http://www.albertmohler.com/2010/05/04/its-getting-dangerous-out-th...
  • I hope the Pastor contacted Jay Sekulow at the ACLJ!
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